Back when I was a dedicated Christian, I read a book called Christian Apologetics by Norman Geisler and became very interested in the subject. Soon after, I read several more books about the supposed evidence for God and Christianity. Books like Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, Why I Believe by James D. Kennedy, Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell, and The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel, to name a few.
I was overwhelmed by all the philosophical and historical evidence for God and the Bible. How could anyone be an atheist? Perhaps they just weren’t aware of the evidence. Maybe if more of them knew about it, then at least the ones who were open-minded would change their beliefs.
For a short time, I felt God was calling me into the ministry so I could help share this information with the secular world. I came up with a very specific strategy: I would show atheists that if you approach the question of God’s existence and the historicity of the Bible with an open mind and no biases, you will come to the conclusion that Christianity is true. But in order to show them that, first I had to do it myself.
My plan was to pretend I’d never heard of Christianity, be as objective as possible, and investigate the Christian religion with an open mind. As a Christian, I already “knew” I would come to the conclusion that Christianity is true, but I wanted to do it anyway so I could walk atheists through the process and show them my line of reasoning.
I never expected to find out that Christianity isn’t true.
You might be picturing a cliche montage of a student spending hours at the library, sitting at a table and poring over volume after volume. It didn’t happen like that. Yes, I did a lot of reading, but the main thing I did differently was change my perspective to that of an atheist. I tried to imagine how they saw the world and what criticisms they might have for Christianity.
If you’re a Christian, then at this point you might think I read several atheist books and was “corrupted.” Nope. I didn’t read a single atheist book or article. Throughout my entire deconversion process, I read nothing but the Bible and Christian books. In fact, I didn’t read any atheist books until years later. Which means I deconverted completely on my own.
All I did was imagine the atheist perspective and I came up with all sorts of questions I’d never thought of before:
- Isn’t it a contradiction to say we’re born guilty?
- Why bother praying if God has a master plan?
- What’s so great about blind obedience?
- Why do the 10 commandments seem so primitive?
- How can a loving god punish good people so viciously?
- Why doesn’t God perform big miracles anymore?
- Why doesn’t God appear to people anymore?
- What would I believe if I had been born elsewhere?
- Why is God’s word so poorly organized?
- How can a loving God threaten his children with torture?
And dozens more. I looked for answers in Christian books, but most of them didn’t even address these questions. I also asked family members and people at church, but it was obvious they’d never seriously considered these questions. In fact, they seemed to be making up their answers on the spot, and their answers usually missed the point of the question anyway.
One day my pastor said something I’ll never forget: “You have to have faith.” I know, it seems pretty obvious, right? All Christians ever talk about is faith. But what I realized is that faith is all they have.
Once you point out all the problems with their philosophical arguments and supposed historical evidence, they always fall back to faith. “You just have to believe and trust God,” my pastor said. “Someday he’ll give you all the answers, but for now you have to have faith.”
Suddenly my plan to lead atheists to God using evidence was ruined. Why? Because there is no evidence. Sure, there are countless reasons why people believe in god, but none of them involve reliable evidence that other people can verify. In fact, there’s more evidence for aliens than for Christianity. So if you want to be a Christian, you just have to set aside your doubts and believe.
But that raised a new question: How did I know my beliefs were true? Normally when you’re not sure if something is true, you can do your research and find out. But when it comes to religion, you can research it everyday for the rest of your life and never come any closer to finding out whether it’s true. All you can do is have faith.
So how did I know my faith was in the right religion? I didn’t. I remember the moment I realized that. I was driving to work, and it made me so sick to my stomach that I almost pulled over. Up until that moment, I would have happily said, “I know Christianity is true.” But now my honest answer was, “I don’t know if Christianity is true.”
Once I acknowledged the possibility that Christianity was just another made up religion, I began to see more and more problems with it. Pretty soon, the stories of Yahweh seemed about as plausible as the stories of Greek gods. And the life of Jesus seemed about as realistic as the life of Muhammad. How could I go on dedicating my life to something that might not even be true?
It’s one thing to have strange beliefs. Lots of people believe in things like Bigfoot, aliens, and the Lochness monster, and most of these people will acknowledge that they could be wrong, but they’re fine with that because they’re not basing their lives on these beliefs.
But with Christianity, everything hinges on it: how you look at the world, how you treat your spouse, how you raise your children, how you decide what’s right and wrong, how you spend your Sundays, and so forth. Christians are even counting on their beliefs to be true so they can escape death itself.
How could I let Christianity dictate my entire life and hopes for the future if I didn’t even know if it was true?
“You have to have faith.”
That answer just didn’t work for me anymore. I didn’t–and still don’t–know how to base my life on something that could be completely made up.
At some point, I forgot all about my plan to convert atheists to Christianity. At first I kept reading Christian books in hopes that I would stumble upon better answers to my questions, but the more I read these books the more certain I felt they were wrong. Eventually I quit reading Christian books altogether. It was too depressing.
Over the next two years, my faith in God and the Bible continued to fade away. There were a couple times when I got emotional and rededicated my life to Christ, but it never lasted long. Sometimes I begged God to strengthen my faith, but he never did, and that only made my faith weaker. Eventually, I just didn’t believe in god anymore.
I still thought god was one possible explanation for the origin of the universe, life, and consciousness. But I also knew there could be other explanations, perhaps ones nobody had even thought of yet. So until somebody could prove the god hypothesis, I wasn’t going to believe it. And that’s how I became an atheist.
The reason I’m sharing this is to offer myself as an example of someone who set aside his biases, investigated the claims of Christians as objectively as possible, and came to the conclusion that there is no good evidence for the existence of God or the historicity of the Bible. Ultimately, you have to have faith. And if Christianity requires faith, then it’s no more valid than any other religion.
To the Christians reading this, I know some of you probably skeptical. You might think I was never a true Christian or that I’m suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. Go ahead. All I can do is share my experience. You don’t have to believe me.
But I want you to do something: Stop assuming you’re right and at least consider the possibility that you could be wrong. Stop being so arrogant as to think you have it all figured out, and have a little humility. When you go to church, study the Bible, or read a Christian book, don’t enthusiastically agree with everything you hear and read. Instead, just think about it. Be as critical of Christianity as you would be of any other religion. If your beliefs are true, then you have nothing to be afraid of.
“Lots of people believe in things like Bigfoot, aliens, and the Lochness monster….”
I also like to include “elves” in such a grouping. In Iceland, there are many people who have faith in the existence of elves. If I lack a belief in the existence of elves, is the burden upon me to prove that elves do not exist?
Actually elves do exist. For example there’s the late actor Mickey Rooney, the still living actor/singer Paul Williams and the tiny little kid, (who grew up a tiny little man), that played Nicholas on the old TV series “Eight is Enough”. There were also some lively elves in The “Wizard of Oz” too.
Thank you so much for writing this. This sounds so familiar as it somewhat mirrors my de-conversion from evangelical Christianity to agnosticism and eventual atheism. As my wife is still a believer, I feel caught in a vice sometimes as our beliefs are now in conflict (I was a believer when we married). I am sharing this post with her to help understand WHY I started to doubt. As you so elequently put:
“The reason I’m sharing this is to offer myself as an example of someone who set aside his biases, investigated the claims of Christians as objectively as possible, and came to the conclusion that there is no good evidence for the existence of God or the historicity of the Bible.”
The questions that you raised for yourself mirror many of those detailed by John Loftus in his excellent book “The Outsider Test For Faith”. I highly recommend it for any believer truly wanting to look at things objectively.
Thanks for the suggestion! I just added that book to my wishlist.
Another book that you may enjoy is Dan Barker’s “Losing Faith in Faith”. As you may or may not know, Dan is a former evangelist who became a nonbeliever and is now co-president of the FFRF, along with Annie Laurie Gaylor. He’s also a very nice guy – too nice in my opinion.
Yea I read his other book, Life Driven Purpose, and loved it. I’ll have to check that out.
I Don’t believe in God anymore. I am Sick and Tired of being Tested, while the Rest of the World enjoys their lives, but the so called GOD, Does Nothing for me. Nothing. I Pray and Pray for Years, but GOD is so Deaf to my longings for a better life. GOD is Not for Me, and he has Never been. And my daughter and me have been through All Kinds of injustices, but GOD is Never on Our Side. I Believed in GOD my entire life, but I get Older and Older and the Only thing I Got from GOD was Punishment for being a Good Godly Person. So, NO, I don’t believe in GOD anymore.
thanks for this blog. it really hits home
Let me begin by suggesting that I would willing surrender my faith for good cause. Frankly I am tired… and having lost a wife, and later a son, I live daily with deep emotional pain. I would give anything to no longer care. Simply going black causes me no fear.
When I was very young I dedicated myself to knowing what was true… to the extent, that is, that I could discern truth. It is for this reason that I continue to believe. Well, that and I have a deep passionate love for God. One in the same actually… truth and God.
So I will provide limited answers to your first two questions… as I am typing on an iPad, a thing I hate, and it is late. But here goes.
As to why we are born into sin… man, given free will, chose sin. God of course knew this would be man’s choice. God used this choice to allow man to understand the cost of sin. Some of us, understanding this cost, turn back to God, others do not. This decision has eternal consequences such that having turned away from sin in this world we are choosing to live sinlessly for all time. On the other hand, turning our backs to God in this world is also a choice for all time. When God created beings of free will the stakes were very high… Free will is a god like trait that comes at a huge cost.
As to your theoretical pair of individuals, God does not play games. He knows the content of our hearts and it is here that we are judged… not by what we say, or even think, but by what it is that we truly desire. Some days I think what I desire is oblivion. I am very tired of the pain. But what happens to me is of less importance to me than the understanding and certain knowledge of God’s existence. And if I am honest with myself I know that where I long to be is with him.
If the day comes that you stand before God in judgement having refused the gift of salvation you will have put yourself there… not by word, or by deed, but rather by the desire of your heart.
Somehow I am guessing that you will not do that… for I still hear the longing in your words, which is why I have taken the time to respond.
May God bless you…
You talk about this “gift of salvation”, but how am I supposed to accept a gift that I can’t even confirm exists? Even most Christians admit you have to have faith, so how do you know you’re not deluding yourself just like the tens of billions of people throughout history who have believed other religions?
If God really wants me to accept his gift, he’ll appear to me and offer it. My deepest desire is to know the truth, whatever that may be. If God exists, I want to know about. But until you can provide some sort of empirical evidence, I’m going to remain an agnostic by necessity and an atheist by default.
Yes, I sensed in you a sincere desire to know what is true. This is something that you and I share in common.
I am just go to assert this, although I am happy to go into any of the following points in more detail.
The closest we come to knowing what is true in this world is knowing what we truly believe. Sadly, most people never accomplish this, rather they insist on beliefs they do not hold for the sake of expedience… the espoused beliefs seeming to gain them something they think they want. For you I suspect a real answer to this question is a necessity.
Our beliefs grow directly out of our desires. What we truly desire forms the causative action that yields what we truly believe.
Our desires grow directly from our actions. The more we act in a given direction the stronger our desire grows.
Our actions are a result of choice as we are agents of free will. Because we have free will we must choose. Ironically, choice is the one thing we have no choice in.
Now what I have written above is true for all human souls… the following is opinion…
I believe that God wants relationship. If humans were robots their love for God would be forced. If they had absolute knowledge of his will many would act out of fear. God desires to gather a people to him who come to him of their own free will out of a desire for relationship with him.
Maybe he does not exist. This is not a thing I can know. But tell me, what have I lost by pursuing the desire of my heart? Do you think there is some kind of prize given those who remain stoical to the end?
I can give you near endless reasoning to justify my faith… but you and I know that after the endless hours (and I am very, very good at apologetics) we would just be two men without the ultimate answers.
So tell me this? Are you going to hold out for the final revelation, staying true to the end just on the outside chance that there is nothing really there? Or are you willing to take the plunge… follow after the desire of your heart… My sense of you is that you and I will meet someday in heaven. As I have already stated, I believe we are saved by that which lies within our hearts, not our heads. But how sad will it be to discover that all the time between now and then there was a purpose and design for your life, but that you missed out on all of it?
And before you rankle over the idea of design… I had three children. I tried to understand how each was formed, and tried to help each one achieve that for which they were made… that which would give them the most satisfaction and joy. One is going onto medical school, while the oldest is about to pursue a PhD in biology (we are of the scientific ilk around here). My son, who was killed in an accident shortly after turned 18 was one of the finest young men I have ever known. My plans for them centered on their joy and happiness. How much more perfect do you think your heavenly father’s plans are for you?
If you wish to discuss apologetics I am happy to do so… but my guess is that what I have written is of much greater value. If you have other questions I am happy to respond. If you wish to point out flaws in my reasoning I will tell you up front that nothing gives me more joy than when folks prove to me that I am wrong. I love learning…
There is no Heaven, there is no Hell, no afterlife where our “souls” are judges, and most definitely no Higher Power or Divine Being, for which the term “God” is commonly used. He made his choice to not believe in God or the tenants of Christianity……why not just let him be and let the chips fall where they with respect to the choice he made? Leave him alone, and stop trying to convert him back to God and Christianity!!!
Just because you think there’s no God shouldn’t stop others from discussing it. You don’t seem to have any good reason for not believing either, Neerav.
Good on you Carl for putting your beliefs out there. I am a Christian and I think you’re right that even if I am mistaken, believing in God has made my life so much better and happier.
About your question on prayer, southernskeptic, God wants us to pray not because He needs it, but because we need it. Praying fixes our minds on what is important and takes it off what is not important. Communicating with God is the way to build a relationship with Him.
Has God never appeared to you? Have you never felt His love?
Even if you could absolutely prove Christianity (and I believe God has prevented this for the sake of free will) there would be no point in logically convincing everyone if they didn’t accept His love. God wants us in a relationship with Him, not just to believe that He exists.
And, btw, who do you believe Jesus was if he wasn’t God? A loony? A good moral teacher?
And how do you know He doesn’t exist? Is it just lack of evidence?
You said that you believe god made it impossible to prove Christianity for the sake of free will. Please see this article where I address that idea: http://southernskepti.wpengine.com/why-is-god-hiding/
Neerav Trivedi – Thank you for your post!
Thanks Carl for your supportive response on faith and in God. If you don’t mind I would like on occasion ask a question or two regarding our faith in God. Would appreciate that much at this stage of my Christian journey
I hear the both of you. I’m a beliver but all ive ever seen was abuse and inconsistency. I’m 23 and have been in church my intire life. I played music on stage and ive preached a few times. But as a young hard working man, sober healthy, smart, outgoing, talented. Ive been homeless off and on for 5 years. Ive endured abuse my entire life. Sexual abuse at 5 till 9. Moved to my abusive herion junkie mother when I was ten. The she lost her rights when I was 12, adopted by my uncle who was worse than anyone else. The man locked me up in hospitals for 5 years while he was sexual assulting my sister. (She gave consent but at 16 you cant give consist to sleep with your uncle. Anyway at 17 I became homeless, aged out of foster care, spent the next 6 years homeless off and on. Check this out. Ive never done a any drugs or alcohol or addiction that would cause homelessness. Its legit God absolutely taking a dump on me. I’m fully convinced at this point that he hates me and is using me as an example. With that point of view I’m sure you can see why I’m angry and why I say, things between him and I will never be the same. Like even if I did somehow fall back in love with him. I will mever forget he left me, I begged for him, tears, smiles, anger! I gave him all of me and all this time I spent trying to be godly.(not out of obedience) (more like respect, honor, and love for him. Anyway I still even today desire complete godlyness and a state of peace. But even if I got that I could never look at jesus the same. With that being said I’m pretty sure my road is ending soon. Honestly this is going to be true for tons of people but god is the reason I have not commited suicide. So…. If I keep goong down this road the only chain breaking off me is the fear of god. A one way ticket to forever sleep and hell. Which is a whole nother topic.
Yes, you will figure it out upon your death. There is an afterlife
I’m struggling with my”faith”. It seems that God has no faith in mankind. Questions I am dealing with are:
Why do the best people get the shaft while bad people seem to get everything.
Why does Christ have to come again to finish the job?
Why did anyone have to die in the first place?
Why did God create sin and evil?
Why, if Christ won, has the world gotten so much worse?
Why did God not destroy evil before he created mankind?
This is all his/her screw up, why do we have to die? Why did he create a world that is so bad? Who does he allow sin to perpetuate?
I’m a church going Christian but my faith is dead. My belief in mankind is dead.
Mankind is fucked …FUBAR
Do good people only get a bad deal? Bad things may happen, but God uses them to draw us closer to Him. I find that when everything is going well, I depend on myself, my friends, my blessings, etc. and I forget to pray. I soon get bored, tired and distressed. When things are going badly, I have to completely depend on God and pray continually. This brings me much peace and joy. I find that I can sit and pray for an hour and my situation doesn’t change at all, but my outlook does. And when I see God in the centre of it all, it has been changed from a nightmare to a joy.
I think you are forgetting about heaven. It answers a lot of your questions.
well, good for YOU.
but your formula may not work for those who’ve done the same but received either nothing or worse/more grief despite their best efforts to try.
If God is so loving, wonderful and merciful. Why did I have to pull a new born baby out of a trash bag that was thrown into a dumpster by her mother and other things in my life that I’ve seen that no person should see. It’s funny how people go jump and cheering praising the lord for such wonderful sun shiney day. When all I see is death of people who suffer that before the sick and illness takes their life in a painful way. Being burned alive, torn apart, drowned etc. I go to church because my better believes in god even I lost faith along time ago, I go for her because I do anything for her. When I started seeing all the bad, I started to question by beliefs. So I went to read the Bible and the more I read it the more I started to lose even more faith because of all the errors in it and then actually reading that God had innocence killed and was sometimes hateful. To me that doesn’t really seem like a loving God to me and if you look throughout the history, if you didn’t believe or followed a different faith. You were either killed or beaten until you believed or the belief was pushed unto to people saying your god is wrong you have to believe in ours. If you want to believe that’s fine but don’t push onto people or tell they’re going to hell just because they don’t. I could go on and I’ll probably get a lot of slack for it but then again it’ll prove another point on why I stopped believing.
Wow, I’m so sorry for your suffering. Life gets a lot simpler (and better) when you accept that god probably doesn’t exist and leave religion behind. Then you can stop wrestling with all these questions and focus on improving your life. Don’t let theism hold you back any longer.
I started losing my faith six years ago when my first child was born. I looked and saw all the suffering going on around the world, especially children. It made me question everything. Questions like you’ve already put.
I was agnostic for a while but this last year I feel that I’ve stopped believing altogether.
If there is a god, then who made god? Where did he come from?
If you answered that, then you would have to say ‘who made the being who made God?’ and then ”who made the being who made the being who made God?’ etc. But it can also go the other way. Who made the energy that collided to form the big bang? Everything must have started from one ‘thing’ that has always been. I believe that that ‘thing’ is God.
If you’re okay with the idea that god has always existed, then what’s wrong with the idea that the universe has always existed? And at least with the universe, we can be certain it exists. There’s no certainty that your god exists?
I hate to say this. But I just came across this article, as I sit next to my bible, because I googled “I’m losing belief in God.” I have to admit I’m scared. But there is just too many contradictions. Too many things that don’t make sense. For example – Many prophecies have come true right? Well, so have prophecies from Paganism, Islam, Jewism, Budhism etc;. So, if each religion has had prophecies that have come true. Then that must mean either, every religion is true. Or all are fake. I want to believe in God. But I can’t. I love Jesus, and I love God. But I am finding myself just believing they’re made up. I do believe there is a God. However, I believe that it is about the soul. I don’t Believe in heaven or hell. I believe in Karma. I have seen and heard spirits first hand. So I am leaning more towards believing in the spiritual pagan belief.
I agree ^^ I’ve stopped believing and still manage to get by.
I’m very late to this, but I’m sitting here 8 months into a pregnancy that my husband and I prayed for for so long, sobbing, feeling like I’m turning my back on God who had blessed me and taken care of me through the years. I feel like I’ve lost some huge part of my life and I’m not sure how to process it.
Neither my husband nor I grew up in Christianity but both later found it in our adult lives. We followed somewhat blindly but were never evangilecal or devout. We’d skip Sundays and our faith would waiver in the face of hard times. Me, especially. After my step-dad died unexpectedly just months before he was to walk me down the aisle which was also around the same time as the Sandy Hook shooting, I was shaken and didn’t feel much like praising God. Still, I never really stopped believing and always managed to find my way back.
Then, with a baby on the way, my husband, being the amazing man he is, decided he wanted to be prepared to raise our daughter in Christ and started reading his bible every day. His intention was to get CLOSER to God and in turn lead his family close to God. It backfired. The more he read of his bible, the more that everything he’d learned about God didn’t make sense. He began to share his doubts with me, not to convince me, but in hopes that we could find answers. I did lots of research to try to help him find answers. Rarely was the question answered and if it was, it usually relied on another part of the Bible to be true. If the legitimacy of the Bible is being questioned, it wouldn’t make sense to use biblical references as an answer (which also points to more inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible, making it even harder to believe).
Now here we are. I believe my husband has officially lost all faith, but I’m still clinging to some shred of hope of some divine intervention. Something happened when my daughter was 7 that I haven’t been able to shake as some sort of “proof” that God and his angels exist – we had all gathered at my grandmothers house as she lay there on her deathbed. She had become incoherent only grunting and mumbling at this point and we all knew her days had come to an end, still we all kept speaking to her and trying to make sense of what she was trying to say. On this one night, she let out a series of mumbles and my aunt asked my grandmother what she was trying to say. From the next room, my daughter says “she said she’s going to talk to the angels”. My immediate response was “when?” and without skipping a beat, my daughter said “on Tuesday”. My grandmother passed away on Tuesday. This is one of those things that if someone had told me this story I would have smiled and just assumed it was some cute little anecdote to get me to feel better about something, but having it happen to me in a room full of my relatives who all heard the same thing (no I’m not crazy) makes it hard to let go.
Sorry to ramble on. I’m not sure that I have a point to this comment at all, really. Just sharing how torn I am about all of this. At this point I’m not sure anyone will ever see this… it might just be that it’s cathartic for me to write it all down.
I read what you wrote and I hear your heart. I wish I can something to encourage you but I feel the same as you do. I have a crumb of hope that something is real. But his article says so much.
This is literally what I feel and I feel wrong for making things up even if they make sense to me in my heart and mind
Why do God allow the innocent children to suffer? Why bring them into this world and make them suffer? I believe in Karma but —children..what did they ever do to deserve these sufferings and sickness. A lot of people have been helping to alleviate poverty and pain but how can we cease these sufferings if God keeps allowing them to happen? It’s like we are doing are part but God keeps pouring more sufferings on earth. I have a good life and I have things and people in my life that I feel like I don’t deserve for I was not a very good person – I always think my good life is a gift from God but why do other people live a bad life? Hungry and poor and sick…why is he unfair to them? Seeing kids suffer break my heart and lose my faith.
oh
my
gosh
In so many ways, I feel like I just read my own story.
It Took me 4 full years to fully de-convert after almost 40 years in the faith!!! Did it on my own, too, with only the bible and a whole lot of prayin’ & pleadin’ with god. The bible I’d been clinging to for so long finally ended up LITERALLY in the trash. And low and behold – god didn’t miraculously raise it up or shout a rebuke at me with thunder; there was just silence and a trashcan full of bullshit.
I stumbled on your site via Twitter. Super glad I did!!!!
Wow, that’s a long time! Most people are thoroughly brainwashed after four decades. Congrats on waking up!
Thanks! I’m still recovering!
I am kinda confused, it seems your only evidence for not believing in God is that you can’t see God. And, seeing that there is an entire universe out there (maybe more), saying that there is no God is not an entirely valid proof, it assumes you know everything about the universe.
Why do you believe that there is wind? And why do you believe in gravity? You can’t see it, but you can see it’s effects. I cannot physically see God, but I can see Him working in my life. I have felt His loving touch, I have tasted His goodness and I have heard His voice.
What if I asked you, “Where is your evidence for not believing in the tooth fairy?” You’d think that’s a pretty ridiculous question, right? Well it’s the same with god. I don’t need evidence to not believe in him.
The idea that a god created the universe is just one possible explanation for why it’s here, and I haven’t seen enough evidence to convince me of that explanation.
You’re right about wind and gravity. I believe in them because I can see their effects. I cannot see the effects of god anywhere. All I see is believe deluding themselves. People from other religion have also claimed to see their god working in their lives. Obviously, they can’t all be right. Most, if not all of them, must be fooling themselves. What makes you any different?
Matt, you are right. “God” is not working in anyone’s life. It’s just a simple law of attraction, due to positive thoughts, that would make it “appear” there is a god that answers people’s prayers.
Ten years ago, I was “saved”, I had an amazing testimony of how God intervened and saved this terrible sinner. I wholeheartedly, fully 100% commited my life to God, to Jesus and to the Holy Spirit; I sought them desperately and fervently. Studied my BIble, prayed, listened to daily messages even in the car and I sought out an excellent non denominational church in which to grow.
I was *On fire* for God and as instructed, I went out to do His work… over the months and years, I realised that nothing happened. I would share the gospel and my testimony and never once did anyone accept Christ in my presence – Why wasn’t God giving me encouragment as His child? But I knew that He was in control and all I had to do was have faith. I laid hands on people many times, fully believing that He could work through me and use it for His glory and their salvation. I never once sought any glory or recognition. What happened? Nothing.
I once went to a hospital to pray for a chinese family friends relation.. this could have been the most amazing miracle to release them from their “false religion” and let them see that Jesus was the only way… the relation died. I prayed for the second family relation and …they died. I mean what kind of message does that send out to people who you wnt to know as the real God? They must have been like “well if thats your God im not interested” why would they be. It was like a failed promotional display for the product of the century.
So again, not once did I see any encouragement.
In the real world, a father would encourage and support his son to do the family work, if not he would grow dispondent and give up… so why wasn’t the all powerful creator of the universe encouraging me even a little but to show me that what I was believing was right? Was I really saved? Well even if I wasn’t (which I was) why would God damage someone else’s savation and belief in Him by not saving those people?
Still , I knew that he knew best and had a plan.
Slowly, I stopped sharing the gospel and definatley stopped offering to show people how my amazing God could heal their sick and perform wonders and miracles. I no loger wished to look foolish.
All it would have take was a little encouragment , but instead, nothing.
I see Christians that I know, really good (from an earthly perspective, yes I know by God’s standards no one is good) people, living Godly lives, being shat upon from the highest height, suffering with terrible health issues. WHY? Whats the point? If they love you why allow them to suffer? To bring them closer to you? There are better ways to do that. But what do I know? I should just have faith right? That you’re in control and this is all part of your wonderous plan.
Over the years I have grown colder, I have prayed and prayed and begged Him to give me a sign and show Himself to me. Instead, knowing that I am on the verge of giving up all together, there’s nothing. No sign, no vision, no wonder no amazing answer to prayer, no fire within me, just nothing.
I desperatley want it to be true, I want Him to be real, and I wonder why, the omnipotent, omniscient great I AM cannot or will not answer. Something , anything – a small devine token to say, dont worry, hold fast stay on course, I’m here. Nope, nothing.
This is something I never in a million years thought I would ever ever write or consider,
It’d difficult because my wife is from a very Christian Pastor’s family so my apostacy wouldn’t go down well so for the time being, I shall continue to pray empty meal blessings and say prayers that I know will not be answered devinely, rather worked out naturally.
There is *something* in the universe, a greater power, which maybe is the universe itself. But I am feeling that it is not the God of the BIble whom I have followed thus far.
Well, I’m very late to this game. I am currently studying for my Masters in Religious Studies. I do not know what I believe, but it is not that the bible is the infallible word of God. I’m gay. I was raised in a Cristian household. My wife was raised in a Christian household. My own mother has basically wished for my unhappiness because the bible says that being gay is wrong. My wife family gave into her family’s desires and left me because they would rather she be alone than with another woman. All because of “faith” and “Christianity.” But how could God, any loving kind god that everyone is always shouting about, give me the ability to love someone so much and then tell me its wrong. Religion and Christianity has made me feel absolutely worthless and unworthy of any possible great love. Sure, I could marry a man and put away my sinful nature, but I would be robbing myself of the feelings and joy that are supposed to come from sharing your life with someone. And for what? And if God has this great plan for everyone, where is mine? He must of known that he made me this way, right? If there is a God, I hope he’s nothing like Christianity paints him.
I am not sure if anyone answered you, That makes me sad, read all the John Shelby Sponge books you can get your hands on.
I was raised Southern Baptist, I am 64 years old now and just 2 years ago realized that religion, the Bible was a farce. I am a caring compassionate person who at one time considered becoming a pastor. After reading Pastor Sponge’s books it finally all made sense to me. I hope you find peace and happiness in your life. ?
What is undeniable:
1. we all fail at being perfect. ( everywhere it is said in a comparative way that they are not as bad as other people)
2. absence of understanding or the unseen doesn’t do away with reality ( people believe in the unseen all day, everyday. phones are not connected by hard lines)
3 historical records of others can’t be denied, (people believe in Abraham lincoln, but can only believe that he existed based on historical records. no one in our day has meet that man)
4. personal feelings can wreck our lives. (if a person doesn’t feel like going to world they jeopordize their job) (if a person glances at another from a distance the feeling that they are talking about the one glanced at can’t honestly say they are talking about them. that feeling is destructive and leads to judging that is not based on truth.)
5 secondhand information is knowledge and Firsthand is experience.
6 the sun rises in the east and sets in the west and never another way.
7 no one is forced to love or hate. they act on their own decisions. ( my grandfather was a drunk, my father chose not to be.)
8 denial of truth doesnt dismiss truth.
9 mental accent is acknowledging and accepting truths, but doesn’t mean that one has experienced them.
10 decisions that shun truth that may not be accepted, use feelings as guides, reject historical records, reject self as not being perfect, end by sencondhand information, dismiss the reality of the unseen when it is experienced will end in hopelessness because true logic has been denied.
A lot of people called “followers of Christ” have been found to have mental accent and to have never been born again. Mental accent is secondhand knowledge, but to be born again is a firsthand rebirth that man can not accomplish. Mental accent needs no repentance or truth faith in Jesus the Savior for Salvation it’s just a mind that has accepted particular trues that could be wrong or right.
When you go to a diner and they give you a menu at that point all you have recieved is knowledge of what the diner has to offer. if their food isn’t ordered and eaten then you have never had the experience.
Sometimes when people go to God’s word they only gain knowledge, but they have not had the experience. The experience that his word tells them that they can have. That will never come until genuine repentance of sin and putting faith in Christ is done and that’s when God forgives their sins and puts his Spirit in a person to aid, teach comfort, guide and chasten that person and thus opening his plan for their life.
Jesus said in John chapter 3 you must be born again. (not if you want to )
Jesus has hope for all who will come (not by mere mental accent) to him to be forgiven and desire to obey him.
It is so sad that so many will miss being forgiven and have peace in their heart all because they reject what is undeniable.
It’s difficult for me to have faith in a religion that has a history of murdering millions of people over what they deemed as ‘heresy’ especially when Christians even today condemn one another over these ‘heresies’. It’s difficult for me to have faith in a religion that has more divisions that all world religions combined. Every Christian – esp. reformed (IFB etc.) and remnant sects, (SDA) all have major doctrinal disagreements, yet all of their websites claim “BIBLE TRUTH”.
I’ve also found over the years that Christians are typical pieces of judgmental junk. Christianity is a JUNK religion, so I’m out!
It’s TRUE that religion is manmade, and Christianity is no exception, But do note; there are absolute patterns to Near Death Experiences. No, those don’t point to the God of the Bible. But they do “indicate” that our so-called “God” in its most natural form is a VERY bright light that’s SO bright that it would be blinding for us to see that white light with our natural human eyes.
There’s also the “life review” that comes after death. No, that doesn’t mean that people automatically go to hell either. Virtually ALL of the folks who have had NDE’s insist they’ve seen heaven. Very, very few claimed they saw hell first, but got out of it with positive thoughts and “soul searching” (things like that).
Folks, Christianity in its raw form is bologna.
God = mother earth, and mother earth doesn’t demand worship.
And we can safely assume that this white light people see is the energy source that created us. That energy source doesn’t babysit us, intervene to help us through hard times, etc. In fact, it doesn’t do a damn thing for us while we’re here on earth.
So in that sense, there is no “God.”
But, think about this: Is it necessary for a god to exist in order for us to move up out of this human form after we die, and go to “heaven?”
I’m beyond late to this article, typing now on my xbox of all things. That said, I’m pretty much an atheist because I cant get a direct answer from the almighty. I am a former Christian and I have 20-something years under my belt along with 6 or so years in various religious studies (2 of which are entirely post grad).
Anyhoo time for my rant… In my experience Christians especially those born prior to the 80’s are quite biased in their discussion… Yet to my dismay almost every one of my fellow “atheist” modern or otherwise are typically uneducated, completely biased, and unable to even entertain the slightest possibility of anything other than their own worldview or what someone has told them (typically other secular uneducated atheist).. I at least enjoy a good argument and the one appologist in this thread is most certainly a cut above the rest of the boohoo crowd.
I’ll be the first to admit Empirical evidence isn’t everything.. Not even seeing is entirely believable. We have quantum machines calculating information and providing answers we can’t prove because we can’t directly check it. Infinity + 1 = infinity, but try to prove that statement: inf – inf would give you 1 equals zero and any dumbass thats made it to a first grade level (minimum) will tell you how rediculous that sounds. Then you got the cubit which can be both a 1 or a zero, and at times both. Quantum theory has been placed into action breaking what Einstein theorized as relative at this point – there are those who would argue as though it’s been proven or they took a trip down the horizon and possess first hand knowledge.
Point is, even as an atheist im open to discussion because there’s things even the great Google can’t explain yet we believe it to be true. For instance the difference of 1 and 2 is 1 or rather1 + 1 is 2, yet what if I told you I can fit infinity between the two? Assuming you believe I’m teetering on the unknowable, unaswerable bit of the illogical allow me to show you: converting that simple math into decimals: Going all the way from 1 then .999.. To .0000001… (hint keep adding a zero while the 1 steps right). It becomes a paradox of sorts just like we can measure the finite distance between two poInts yet that same distanc can be broken down an infinite number of times – this fact based bit of logic has allowed solutions for some of the most complex mathematics (calculus anyone?)
Let’s talk some more facts: Space is expanding, rapidly even (proven in the mid ro late 90s) . By the time we can actually traverse space neighboring galaxies will be too far apart for us to do so even traveling faster than light (ru rho Raggy!). When I speak in front of you, you’re seeing it as it “happens” so it’s the present right? Wrong, you’re actually perceiving the past. That means none of us have “seen” the present ever (let alone much else) because that’s not how light, time, sound, or anything else works. Weve gotten pretty damn good at predicting, however (weather forecast, seismic occurances, etc.) but we are a ways off from having all the answers – step 1 admit you don’t know shit; we could theory craft and debate philosophy all day as to what’s actually “real,” but it makes no difference at this point.
I can appreciate a good Christian appologist and the idea of faith because it beats the hell out of the alternative… Eventually it’s lights out because theres a finite amount of fuel in our galaxy and because the deminsional plane continues to stretch you can forget the fantasy of humans exploring other galaxies/finding a new home unless we can create our own star and manage ftl travel (that also means the “evidence” for aliens is highly unlikely – in fact conscious life is beyond a rarity; the math doesn’t lie). No, eventually unlike the infinite, life, our planet, our solar system all returns to dust floating in the void. Nothing matters, mattered, or ever will matter be it the author’s “deconversion,” my hatefulness, or the devout’s apologetics, but at least you won’t find me promising that I took an unbiased approach to reaching the conclusion regarding the existence of “God.”
My depressed ass hopes there’s something, anything really. We supposedly created religions to help explain the things we couldn’t, but verily I tell you there’s things we will never have the answer for, regardless of how logical our attempt. I’m glad there’s something that at the very least pretends to be a moral foundation because we as human beings manage to justify genocide, rape, destruction, the profain, hell even torture in our short span of existince. We live in a world where the victor writes history. We have managed to give value above all else to the materialistic when we ourselves are finite – perhaps that adds to the alluring nature of promised immortality.
I at the young age of 9 couldn’t see the correlation during my many years indoctrinated in Sunday school between teachings , and the behaviour of people after teachings. I almost immediately accepted that I was being lied to. Obviously this fact strengthens over time when you see existence and religion over and over again can’t make sense.
Sadly I was badly abused by my Christian mother for expressing my insights and building my identity free of the false comfort and brainwashing of Christianity. So badly I retaliated in my unpopular view that I was mentally abused there after by extremism and accusations of devil worshipping/ occult demonic influence being the reason for my belief. Or freedom of. I after years of running away from home and repeated mental abuse “religious abuse “ tried to take my life at 13 . I was rejected not only by my family but at that stage by my peers.
I was focused intensely to be crushed and redeemed back into conformity and the faith.
I now 48 still suffer ptsd from these years. I was clearly very brave and very adamant to hold onto what I saw through as lies.
If I could go back I should have just pretended, but as a unique child, I felt to lie like them or not state my beliefs would irradiate my identity.
It was very lonely and I was hospitalised 3 times by force until I reached 15.
I wish to free my years of ptsd one day and gain mental health after this devastating entry into adulthood. I am an artist and want to finally show in my photography curated images full with rich complex depictions of my experiences. At 46 during Covid I lost my commercial fashion photography business, and succumbed to flashbacks of my teens and the religious abuse. I am on a mental disability thankfully to taking out an insurance policy that’s helping me to survive. Mentally I am exhausted and cannot separate hardships of today and my traumatic teens.
I could write a book on the years I suffered and by who and how.
I seek support if theirs any? To get my experience and story out . And to execute my fine art ideas macabre and majestic as I visualise them. But my deep depression and identity loss has me in a strong hold atm.
My story is rich with names and damming events against the reborn Christian adults that still today practice that religion. Any help advice?